The most innovative startups can’t scale if no one will insure them. In this special episode of Below the Fold, Joseph Ziolkowski, CEO of Relm Insurance, joins us in studio at the Dubai AI Festival to share how his firm is rewriting the rules of insurance—specifically for emerging tech sectors like blockchain, AI, Web3, and space. Hosted by: Carlo Oehl From Bermuda to the DIFC, Relm is enabling high-risk, high-growth companies to access the coverage they need to unlock licenses, secure funding, and scale globally.
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[00:00:00] Hi, this is Date With Tech, and you'll be together with Below the Fold, Launch Foundry and Trescon. Today in studio we've got our guest, Joseph Ziolkowski. Joseph, what do you think today about our AI FinTech conference here in Dubai? Yeah, I think it's, a, you know, a fantastic event. A a really. Awesome opportunity to get a concentrated dose of all the progress that's being made in the sector.
And I think a really important window into what's to come. What's to come. So I had a quick look at your company. We went to your booth, chatted to your team, and it seems very interesting what you're doing in the insurance space. So maybe you give us some ideas of how realm insurance and how you guys are doing is different and to tackle the market.
Yeah, it's a great question and first of all, I appreciate you having an enthusiasm about insurance, right? Which is rare, but I think certainly warranted, since we [00:01:00] launched in late 2019 as an insurance carrier. our kind of point of differentiation is that we are really focused on supporting companies that are operating in innovative and transformational sectors.
So, you know, as you know, familiar with the insurance industry. it's a $6 trillion market, right? And so much of that capacity is focused on supporting and solving for traditional risks arising from traditional operations undertaken by traditional companies. And our entire proposition is companies that are in these transformational, innovative sectors.
And one of the reasons that's important is because if you're a company doing anything new, right? Or you're operating in a new industry for which there's not. A, a, a, a substantial amount of historical loss experience, you become almost uninsurable, right? And so we've been focusing all of our time and energy on building products and underwriting solutions to support these types of companies.
And as you, as you probably know, the insurance industry is very archaic and old, you said it, not me. [00:02:00] A lot of that tech does falls behind as well. Yeah. So how do you guys bring technology together with, in your space? Yeah, so I mean, I would love to sit here and say we've got these really sexy machine learning models that are processing thousands of data points to help us make really informed and profitable risk selections.
But you know, the reality is to get to that point, you need to have data. And when you're operating and focused on underwriting companies in sectors where that data is absent, right? We see it as. as, as part of a requirement of our standard operating procedures to gather as much of that information as we possibly can on every single account that comes through the door.
And so while, 2020 and 2021 and even 2022, a lot of our underwriting decisions were very manual. And by that I mean evaluating all the quantitative and qualitative information that comes in on a particular account ranging from detailed financial statements or detailed cap tables to inve investor decks or [00:03:00] cashflow runways.
And as we take that really diligent risk selection and underwriting process, across each account, over the course of a week, a month, a year, you begin to develop a unique data set, right? And it's that data set. Now that we've amassed over 10,000 submissions for companies operating uniquely in these sectors, that has put us in a position to start using technology to streamline that underwriting process and put us in a position to move faster and smarter as time goes on.
Oh, that's great. So looking at that and taking that data and obviously understanding that, what kind of markets or emerging markets do you guys see yourselves putting in or customers that you go and find or come to you to try and get insured? So we, you know, we, we, we focus on a handful of what we consider to be some of the most interesting and important sectors globally.
We, we began back in 20 19, 20 20, focused on companies operating across the digital asset and blockchain space, which today. Is kind of at the convergence of other sectors that we support, [00:04:00] including AI and deep technology, FinTech, online gaming, eSports, and then also now companies operating in the new space economy.
One of the questions was, what role does the jurisdictional collaboration, such as your work with Bermuda and now the UAE play markets with this becomes viable? Yeah. So, you know, as you know, and, and maybe perhaps some of your listeners don't know, insurance. Is a very heavily regulated industry, right?
And when you look at, the challenges for a company operating, let's say in this market to access the type of capacity for insurance products that they need in order to satisfy stakeholder requirements. For example, you know, if you are a, a, a virtual asset business, seeking a license from Vara here in the UAE, which is the Virtual Asset Regulatory Authority, as a condition of obtaining that license.
You have to satisfy insurance requirements for directors and officers liability, professional [00:05:00] liability, and crime, right? So, yeah, as a company operating here, it would be great if you could just turn to the local market efficiently, get the coverage that you need, and move on to your regulation, regulatory, you know, you know, effort, and ultimately get your.
Review and approval from Vara. But because there's so little capacity available to support these types of companies globally, these companies have to work through really complex intermediary channels to access our capacity back in Bermuda. So the, you know, the beautiful part about having A-D-F-S-A regulated insurance intermediary here locally is, you know, we, we now have an office in the DIFC.
We have underwriters here, based locally. We have a compliance team that's based here locally. So really the objective for us, globally is to maximize the accessibility of our products and solutions for, for companies that are doing the things that we want to ensure. So really the important part is having a [00:06:00] regulated entity here in the UAE puts us right on the front lines with brokers and companies that are operating these really innovative sectors.
And then we can use our capacity back in Bermuda. To provide that reinsurance support working with our local insurance partner here at Leva in the market. Yeah. That's awesome. Does that make sense? Yeah. So then the question was, you said it was heavily, heavily regulated. So being part of insurance myself and understanding the insurance game, understand the regulations come really stringent and strict.
So if you're looking at these new, companies that you're looking at and who you can insure mm-hmm. How would you, how does that work with regulation where there's items in regulation that. Can't cover them, but people are asking for cover on something unique. Right. I'm sure you, you've gotten to where you've had to kind of play in the gray area and try and go back to the regulators probably saying, help us with this.
Yeah. Have you ever had that? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if you think about the point of insurance regulation as a starting point, right? Regulators want to avoid insurer insolvencies, right? And so a primary [00:07:00] concern of a regulator, you know, looking at rom's business model is really understanding. What are the risk mitigation, risk assessment practices that we have in place in order to confirm that we have the ability to make informed and profitable underwriting decisions.
Now, if this was 2020, we'd have a lot less, of a track record to point to for a particular regulator that had. A line of questioning, you know, around our ability to, to underwrite effectively and profitably at scale across these industries. you know, but the great part of having, you know, six years of operating track record behind us is that we've seen, companies operating across the different ecosystems that we support, right?
So we can show you the products and the underwriting algorithms for companies that need d and o insurance, operating as asset managers, payment and remittance platforms. Custodians exchanges, software developers, right? And it's really that depth of experience that gives regulators a level of comfort that not only [00:08:00] can we help support the ecosystem here, but we can do it in a way that's sustainable and profitable as well.
So how do you see the UAE financial ecosystem involving in terms of supporting high growth? High potential tech sectors. And what role can insurance play in that vision? Yeah, I mean, when, when you think of that term ecosystem, right? E ecosystem means something, right? You know, in nature, it's a complex network of interconnected organisms that, you know, each of which plays a vital role, each of which kind of sustains and enables the other.
And when you look at what's happening here in, in the UAE, I think you have that kind of convergence of. Startup momentum, which is really critical, right? You've gotta have the entrepreneurs and the founders that are looking at, being fully committed in furthering the business model. Of their respective ventures.
You've gotta have regulatory frameworks, right? That provide source of clarity of how to operate in a compliant fashion. You've gotta have investor capital, right? That's coming into the system to help energize these companies, to push their [00:09:00] their ventures forward. You've gotta have financial services across banking and insurance, right?
So insurance, I think is all, is, is oftentimes the most unsung component of a high functioning ecosystem. But if you look at, you know, the last 300 years. Insurance is the bedrock of any sustainable industry. And I think one of the important features now in this market is in addition to the fact that there is a ton of momentum on the startup front, there's capital flowing in, there's regulatory frameworks that have have been formed during the process of forming.
you know, with the availability of insurance. It should enable companies in a more efficient and effective way. And obviously the pace that things are coming here in Dubai and the UAE. I mean, it's a pa it's a relentless pace. It's to try and keep up. Yeah, and I think that's the other important kind of, you know, differentiator.
When you look at the way that, that we approach the market and, and aligned with one of the comments you made earlier, insurance is a very slow moving industry. It always lags behind innovation. And so by putting [00:10:00] us in the market right in the DIFC. Embedded in the innovation hub working with companies on the Dubai AI campus, it puts us shoulder to shoulder with the companies that are really building products and solutions that are pushing the boundaries of innovation.
And it's with that front lines insight that puts us in a position to make sure that we're bringing the most aligned and relevant products to the market to help support enable these companies going forward. And have, have you guys gone more digital, like digital onboarding, digital filling in forms?
'cause as far as I know, or as far as I see, going London and going cross globe with insurance where I'm playing with, it's still very heavy paper based. It it is. And, and we're, we're trying to reduce the insured and broker burden of obtaining coverage. we're not there yet. Yeah. I think, you know, when, when you look at the opportunities to enhance the customer experience and commercial insurance.
It, the opportunities are massive, right? Yes. And, and, and if you, if you consider one of our core values being customer obsession, really the way that companies interact with us, the way that brokers [00:11:00] interact with us, and how we can make that experience more efficient, more effective, and more scalable, certainly something that we're looking at on a go forward basis.
It's. That's definitely, that's definitely something I'll assist on in the industry. As soon as the insurers are slow to respond, someone needs something insured, et cetera, the one that responds the quickest usually gets the deal. Doesn't always have to be the best premium or even the best coverage. 'cause you know, when you're in high speed tech or innovative items like robots or all those weird things that you guys insure, then they need an answer quite quickly.
'cause the investors coming and they've got this pressure and they've got this contract and so. Looking on that, you probably get a lot of contracts. Hi, when did you insure for this? The contract says so and there's no coverage that exists. Yeah, no, no. You're, you're a hundred percent right. Hitting the nail on the head.
I mean, that is a critical part of the insurance buying experiences, the efficiency and the accessibility and availability. And, and, and certainly I think when you look at the team that we're building, that's underwriting very competently across financial lines, professional lines, cyber crime, casualty property.
[00:12:00] One of the other differentiating factors is. We can now accommodate. The, you know, requests for insurance across the PNC and specialty spectrum. So as a point of efficiency, you know, we're able to give companies access to those coverages through package policies, creating consistent terms and conditions and, you know, more efficient onboarding, offboarding process.
Yeah, definitely. And how the products get broken down. So I've, I've been involved with the Accord messaging language or Accord Group. Oh, okay. Where they've got the strict. These are your products. This is how you must break it down. Yes, I see your head going. And there's so much in that gap missing that people are just slotting it in either under cyber or business or risk.
And it becomes just those categories, which it should create new categories now for the new emerging items. It, it really should. And I think that's, that's one of the other differentiators is we're, we're, we're really bringing subject matter expertise and underwriting experience. and we let those two powers combine to ensure that we've got relevant and aligned insurance products.
So when you look at. you know, our, one of our products, for example, is called, [00:13:00] Sigma. It's a, it's a multi-line package policy that provides coverage for directors and officers, liability insurance, professional liability, cyber crime, fiduciary liability, and a co a couple of other core important coverages, and we're incorporating relevant terms, you know, relevant terminology, you know, arising from companies operating in the blockchain space or, or ai.
So that. We're bringing contract certainty, we're bringing consistency across multiple, d different insurance products. and hopefully making it easier for, for insurance, not just just to understand the, the coverage they're buying, but in the event of a claim, what happens, right? And, and our products are really designed to bring that type of clarity to complex situations that everybody hopes to avoid, but certainly they're gonna encounter at some point in their entrepreneurial journey.
So, looking forward ahead, the future realm, where do you see it going? How big? I mean. Always looking forward, always concerned with how we can, you know, contribute to the building of the future with, you know, by creating solutions for complex risks in [00:14:00] innovative markets. our strategy is really predicated on, on four things.
Number one, expanding our geographic f footprint and obtaining the appropriate insurance authorizations in the most strategically important jurisdictions around the world, where the innovation is happening, where the investment capital is flowing. the second category. Is continually expanding our sector appetite.
So while today we're ensuring companies across Web3 and blockchain, ai, deep tech, FinTech, online gaming and eSports and space, you know, over the next five to 10 years. We're, we're constantly looking for that next transformational sector that we know the rest of the insurance market isn't necessarily going to be excited to accommodate, but we know that the companies operating in those sectors are gonna need these products to continue to expand and scale.
The third category is continuing to expand our product and solution offering. And then the fourth is the way that we operate insurance, reinsurance, and on the intermediary side of things. So we've got a 10 year roadmap of organic growth opportunities, really supporting [00:15:00] companies doing really innovative things.
Oh, that's awesome. Don't you think that 10 year becomes five years with the speed of which everything's traveling? I don't know. We're ready for it. You're ready for it.