In this episode of Below the Fold, we dive into the world of Connected TV (CTV) advertising and why it’s on the verge of exploding in the MENA region. We were joined by two industry experts: Yann Colléter, author of The Streaming Lab, MENA’s go-to newsletter for everything streaming Ahmed Murtadha, an expert media buyer with years of experience in CTV across the UK and UAE Together, they break down the landscape of CTV in MENA, the difference between OTT and CTV, which platforms are leading the charge, and how advertisers should think about targeting, CPMs, and future trends.
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💡 Whether you’re in advertising, media, or tech, this episode will give you a deep look into one of the fastest-growing channels in digital marketing.
🔗 Listen now and get ahead of the curve on the future of TV in the Middle East.
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Ahmed and Yann welcome to Below the Fold. Thank you. Thanks for having us. Happy, happy to be here. Yeah. I'm really excited about,~ uh, uh, ~well this episode and have you having [00:01:00] you guys being part of this episode. This episode's about CTV. Connected tv. It's not something new. It's been here for quite a while, but I don't think there is enough said or ~uh, ~available in terms of information on CTV advertising, and I'm really glad to have Jan on one end who can give us some insights about.
The CTV and streaming landscape in MENA to understand from a consumer perspective, what are the top platforms? Where are,~ um,~ I guess, big channels when it comes to. ~Uh, ~CTV when, and we'll talk about ad supported and non ad supported. I need you for this, but it's important. Yes. ~Uh, ~and from another end we have Ahmed,~ uh,~ who is on the buying side right.
Of,~ uh,~ media and advertising [00:02:00] and has. A really strong experience in CTV buying. Correct. ~Um, ~do you want to,~ uh,~ introduce yourself, guys? Y do you wanna start quickly? Yes. With pleasure. Yeah. First of all, yeah. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure. Of course. ~Um, ~so I've been,~ uh,~ streaming media business for more than 15 years and,~ uh,~ yeah.
Dubai is a big part of my life. 12 years here. Yeah. ~Um, ~I'm the writer of the one and only,~ uh,~ newsletter called,~ uh, uh, ~the Streaming Lab. Mm-hmm. ~Um, ~the only,~ uh,~ newsletter about streaming in Middle East and North Africa. And why? I'm happy to be here because the fact that we all gather today is also,~ uh,~ why I started the newsletter.
I wanted to make sense of streaming in Middle East and North Africa and in,~ uh,~ within the streaming world, you have,~ uh,~ the content tech. Advertising and those are three different world. Mm-hmm. We don't talk to each other and I still don't understand why when I go to an advertising,~ uh,~ event here, there's only agencies, only advertising world take only tech content, only [00:03:00] content.
I, I feel I'm the only one in the middle. So that, that's why I'm trying to do, so today's the perfect day to,~ uh,~ awesome to, to mix all those topics together. Awesome. Ahmed? Yes. So I've been in,~ um,~ I'm agency sites. I've been in agency site now for eight years. Five years of that in London, and then three years here in Dubai.
Seeing the evolution of CTV, obviously coming from London, uk, very developed, CTV market. Mm-hmm. And then moving to Dubai and just seeing it the complete opposite. At the beginning it's getting better, but at the beginning was completely opposite. One or two players. But yeah, it's on the rise. It's on the rise.
I'm sure we'll discuss that as well. Cool. I see it's new CTV here still. Yes. Yeah. Let's see, we'll discuss why compared to,~ uh,~ which markets would you say it's new or where, where, what markets are more mature? ~Uh, ~for example, so, you know, this week was a CapSat, so it's a big event. It used to be cable satellites.
Now it's a lot about,~ uh,~ streaming and mm-hmm. And there were a lot of side event. And one event was very interesting. OSN and Mite. Mm-hmm. And,~ um,~ when you hear them talking about CTV? Yeah, honestly, it's still,~ uh,~ [00:04:00] it feels like it's still new. They still have to explain to the agencies,~ uh,~ what's difference between YouTube, what's the difference between the premium platforms, why the CPMs are totally different.
Yeah. So. But how about we try to define CTV? Yeah. Because I feel there are some,~ uh,~ nuances, right? Yes. CTV, and I'll let you guys build on, on my attempt at defining C-T-V-C-T-V is connected tv. ~Uh, ~and when we say,~ uh,~ CTV advertising,~ uh,~ or content, it can be, ~uh. ~Whatever the TV offers in terms of maybe streaming, but also maybe apps or anything that lives on the TV that is connected to the to the internet.
So when we talk about advertising on CTV, it doesn't necessarily need to be advertising on the streaming apps on on the tv, but it can also be an ad that appears as soon as you open the tv. Right, because this also, this would also be [00:05:00] considered,~ um,~ an ad on a connected tv. Right? ~Uh, ~did I explain it right?
Yeah. I think, I think it's important to distinguish CTV and OTT. Yeah. 'cause O-T-T-C-T-V is fundamentally a device, part of the OTT spectrum. Mm-hmm. So obviously CTV is a big important part of that, particularly in the west. Not so much here, but it's getting more important here. But CTV is a device part of an OTT platform.
So the likes of Shahe, for example, you can consume the content on A CTV, but then also on the phone, on your mobile apps, on your desktop. And that's also important. So there's a distinguishing, I think there's, that's important for clients and advertisers to know, right? That CTV, yes, it's nice to have CTV as a big screen element, but you also need to have that phone you need to consider.
It's also users on their phone and it's equally as premium content on the phone as well. 'cause they're watching the same content right as they would on the tv. Right. But I think what's really different when it comes to OTT is the CTV device. [00:06:00] 'cause it's a different ball game when it comes to the screen sites.
For example,~ uh,~ OTT includes phones, but then advertising on, on mobile phones. Is,~ uh, uh, ~maybe perhaps similar to advertising on YouTube. Correct? Right. ~Um, ~but where it really hits different is when you see an ad on your TV screen. Right. And you mentioned,~ uh,~ higher CPMs. So before, yeah. Before defining CTVI always start with,~ uh,~ streaming.
Yeah. Or TT yeah. So online. Online,~ uh,~ services that, like you stream contents, movies, TV series. We, we used to call it premium content. Now premium is a very complex, what premium for you is, is maybe not premium for me or have another definition. And,~ um,~ you stream,~ uh,~ content on devices. Yeah. Desktop, web,~ um,~ mobile devices, iOS, Android apps, and CTV.
Yeah, CTV is the most,~ uh,~ complex device because it's an ecosystem of devices. [00:07:00] It can be,~ um,~ devices that,~ uh,~ make your TV smart with set boxes, with,~ uh,~ sticks. Yeah. With,~ uh,~ game consoles. Or it could be,~ uh,~ directly a smart tv. So that's a really good point. All the manufacturers with the operating system, it's,~ uh,~ very complex vault.
Yeah. I, I even myself, I, I have a hard time to understand like, ~uh, ~the operating system or of a specific manufacturer, depending on the region, it's different. So it's a mess. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And good luck with this. Yeah. ~Um, ~so yeah, CTV is an ecosystem of device, and. And then,~ um,~ it's not just the smart tv.
You're right. Sorry to interrupt you, but it's also, we forgot the dongo, right? Yes. The Chromecast part of it. The box. Yeah. So from in the streaming world, OTT, we see CTV as an ecosystem of devices. Okay. Okay. Gotcha. Let's dive into,~ uh,~ mean landscape. Right? And I guess it's only fair that we talk about streaming platforms, right?
Or, or, or o [00:08:00] tt. ~Um. ~Okay. Who would you say today,~ uh,~ are the dominating, let's start with that, the dominating platforms. I have a question for you. ~Uh, ~first, do you know how many,~ uh,~ active,~ uh,~ streaming platforms are available in,~ uh,~ middle East, north Africa? In Middle East? I believe it's 50 plus at the moment.
I think we've reached 50 plus now, so it's been accelerating. So a hundred plus platforms, usually I divide them in three categories. You have the local or home ground. Shahi starts play. And plus then you have the international, like, ~uh, ~some, some of them are very niche and the global giants. So the big ones Netflix, prime video, Disney Plus.
Yeah. And they're all accessible from here? Yes, exactly. And active. It means they have an office or they,~ uh,~ license Acqua content co-produced specifically for this region. Okay. So the local platforms is,~ uh,~ of course, what was very interesting also for me, and I keep tracking them. So 60 local platforms. Oh.
What's interesting also,~ uh,~ for you to know, so it's what,~ uh, um, ~make a link between advertising also and, and [00:09:00] streaming is that,~ um,~ 20 are free streaming, 20 are paid streaming and 20 are hybrid. A mix of paid. And free streaming. So it's,~ uh,~ can you give us a few examples? Yes. So, I mean, I know Shy. Yeah, so Shy is the le let's, let's talk about the numbers.
Yeah. ~Um, ~shy is the top,~ uh,~ streaming platform in the main regions. Yeah. I'm very happy because now they are public, so they have to share exactly how many subscribers they have. So end of Q4, last year, 5 million SVOD subscribers. Okay. And 18.6 million monthly active users. Okay. ~Um, ~80. 18. 18. 18. Okay. 18 is the, the, probably the free version.
Free version, yes. Because,~ uh,~ because the Shade is an hybrid platform. Yeah. S-V-O-D-A-V-O-D. Okay. They have Fast also we'll talk about it, right? Yes. And, and so Shaha is bigger than Netflix. Yes. Yes. So impressive. Last week,~ uh,~ three days ago, MDA, that is a big market research,~ uh,~ company. ~Um, ~yeah. Showed their latest data, so I don't [00:10:00] know why, but they say that, ~uh.~
~Uh, ~Shahid has,~ uh,~ 4.4 million subscribers. Yeah. And of Q4, the real, the real,~ uh,~ data is five. Okay. Yeah. ~Uh, ~behind is Netflix, 2.6 million SVE subscribers we're talking about which markets? Mina. Meina. Yes. So GCC in North Africa? Yes. GC. C, Iraq, Egypt. My Okay. Then after Stars play 2.3 million. Yeah. And then the others you have,~ uh,~ Joey tv, SDC tv, you have a view, you have Todd, you have ON plus.
Yeah. And they did something very interesting that they tried to add to this mix. YouTube premium. Yeah. Guess where it's ~uh, ~it is. So premium version and they removed I think the music part. Yeah. Just the DDO part. Yeah. When you say YouTube premium, is it to YouTube tv? It doesn't exist here. Yeah. In the States.
Yes. Here it doesn't exist. So what is YouTube premium here? Is people paying a subscription to remove the ads, you know? And, uh Okay, okay. So they [00:11:00] consider it like an SVOD? Yeah. So it was,~ uh,~ they tried to, to just compare, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And it's 3.4 million, so right after shade. Oh, wow. Oh wow. I love the, the,~ uh,~ YouTube on TV is a thing people do.
Watch people. Yeah. I think I read something really interesting recently that,~ um,~ globally, YouTube, now. I was seeing more viewers on TV than mobile devices. I believe it was this year. Yes. So this year it was the first time exactly. TV devices have overtaken mobile devices for viewing on YouTube. Oh wow. So YouTube and now I think people now enjoying to sit down.
I, I have YouTube premiums on gonna stand up and say, I have YouTube premium go. And it depends, depends on the content I'm watching. If I wanna sit down, lean back, sit down and watch something, I'll go on my TV and watch that on YouTube. But then if I'm watching something quick, I'll watch on my phone. But yeah, something really interesting that, I mean.
The,~ um,~ social media and, and, and like the,~ uh,~ the rise of TikTok and Instagram reels have cut to have taken share from somewhere. Right. And I feel like people are, yeah. Perhaps spending more [00:12:00] time there than watching YouTube shorts or YouTube on their phones. And then, yeah, maybe they've left it, they left YouTube for, for CTV.
I think YouTube is coming back. I think YouTube TV's back, like obviously we have Pierce Morgan, for example, in the uk. Yeah. He moved his show completely onto YouTube. So there is an element now I think of obviously the younger generation, they prefer YouTube and the region's quite different 'cause a lot of the younger generations still watch Shah with their families.
I think that's what I find really interesting. The linear TV here is quite so big. Yeah. But then, yeah, I think globally there's a big push now for people like YouTube. They sit down and watch the content on their TVs. Right. And then, yeah, I think it's really interesting to see this. I think Piers Morgan's the first one, but then obviously there's gonna be a lot more.
Channels switching over to YouTube. I know in the UK they have the, all the news channels are 24 hours on YouTube live. You can watch it live. So it's quite interesting to see. ~Um, ~I, I, I also have a feeling it, it depends on the demographics, right? What, what platforms, people, you know, subscribe to.
Definitely, I guess [00:13:00] Arabic speakers will probably go to Shah,~ uh,~ and maybe us as,~ uh,~ foreign language speakers. Maybe we'll go to Netflix and maybe we're under the impression that everyone watches Netflix 'cause in our circles. Yeah. ~Uh, ~you know, everyone's a foreign language speaker. Correct. And so, yeah. So yeah, each platforms, they have their own,~ uh, um, ~USP.
Yeah. ~Um, ~it can be entertainment, it can be sports, it can be a mix of both. It can be a very specific genres,~ um,~ Arabic contents of course. ~Uh, ~but they're very good because when it, in the, the world of, ~um. ~Arabic production, you have five sub regions. You have GCC, you have Iraq, you have,~ uh,~ you have also,~ uh,~ Egypt that is,~ uh,~ on its own.
Yeah. And you have so shade. They're very good at it. Western plus Western content. Very premium. HBO. Yeah. I'm a big fan. Of course. Yeah. And then you have the, you have the other star play, for example. It's a mix of,~ uh,~ little bit everything. They're very good in,~ uh,~ cricket, for example. Yeah. They got acquired by Ian, so it salad, so they got the, the right thanks to,~ uh,~ thanks to IT [00:14:00] Salad.
Yeah. But like it works very well and they have a big audience coming from,~ uh,~ India, Pakistan. So yeah, there's one,~ uh,~ Z five, I think Z five is very big here in the region as well for the Indian population as well. Yeah. So Z five is the number one I believe in the region for, or maybe it could be someone else.
But like Z five. For which demographic? Indian. Indian. So South Asian. South Asian demographic. They have, I think, I believe they have the Body Wood films and they have the Right, right. All the content that's being consumed in India. Streaming Key as well. There's one channel that we haven't missed, we haven't mentioned one channel, which, which, which is a very well known channel or,~ uh,~ streaming platform.
~Um, ~but yeah, it would be interesting to know the numbers here, which is Apple tv. So it's not part of the pie that India shared. Yeah, yeah. You know, they have a very specific positioning,~ uh,~ premium plus plus plus premium. Yeah. They don't produce a lot of content. Yeah. But I'm sure you watch most of them. I, if you're a subscriber, honestly, I'm a big [00:15:00] fan.
Yeah. And,~ um,~ and the way they distribute is, you know, ~uh, ~within their own ecosystem. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I was, I was gonna jump in on that 'cause I'm. I don't really have a lot of Apple devices. I'm on a Google phone. Yeah. So like for me, apple TV's never been a consideration because it's not something I would look into.
I like, I don't even know the shows on Apple tv. Like, like Jan said, it's very much within the whole ecosystem. So it's, yeah. Samsung TV is, is has some content also right now. Yeah. Samsung TV's. Interesting. Every time I open my Samsung TV right now, it starts playing a show. ~Um, ~yeah. So they launched last year, Samsung TV plus.
Yeah. That is their fast platform. Yeah, so it's new. They still have 20 channels. I think Shahe have 10 channels onto it. ~Uh, ~yes. So the deal is,~ um,~ MMS, so that you all know the, the advertising part of,~ uh,~ NBC group. Yeah. Managing Shahed. ~Uh, ~they got the, the deal to manage advertising of Samsung TV Plus in Mina, at least in the countries where Samsung TV Plus is available in exchange, they, they,~ uh,~ gave,~ uh,~ 10 channels from,~ uh,~ [00:16:00] from Shade.
Okay. Okay. Interesting. And,~ um,~ last point on the,~ uh,~ on the landscape and then we can move on to, onto other topics, cross platform subscription. How common is that right to, to be,~ um,~ watching SHA ahead but also have a Netflix subscription? ~Uh, ~I think it depends on the person. Like for me personally, I have, I don't have a shot.
I'm not too much big onto the Apple Big Sha subscription, but my mom would be. Yeah, so she would have Shahi, but then she also has the Netflix subscription because there's a lot of shows on Netflix within that. Right. And then also it depends on what you like as well. Yeah. If you're a sports fan, like me, I'm a massive sports fan.
Yeah. Todd. So yeah, Todd, so I'd be having Netflix and Todd for sure to watch all the premier watching Arsenal in particular Arsenal in particular watching Arsenal News. Okay. And then, but yeah, that news or when it's been a tough season, I don't wanna talk about it. The reason I'm asking is because you wanna understand,~ uh,~ how much incrementality you can achieve [00:17:00] by adding more streaming platforms on your, on your media plans, right?
And to do that, you, you also wanna understand, alright. ~Uh, ~what is the duplication between, between channels? Yeah. ~Um, ~and I feel like there's probably a higher duplication between Shahe, which is top and,~ uh,~ maybe Netflix. You said Sha ahead number one. Netflix number two. Yeah. Yeah. And then YouTube. Loosely follow down.
Yeah. So of course,~ uh,~ we don't have any choice. We have to subscribe to different platforms if you, honestly,~ uh,~ we don't watch any hobby content. ~Uh, ~we watch only also sports and ~uh, ~plus other kind of content. So in this region, I think the average number of platform per ~um, ~subscribers is a three to four.
Okay. But at the end it's a big issue, right? We call it in, in the streaming world and the subscription fatigue. Yeah. So of course we cannot subscribe to more than a three, four platforms. Imagine like it'll cost like a lot of money. ~Um, ~to answer this challenge. That's why,~ um,~ platform not only here, but it started in the us they launched what we call the model we call ads supported asbo.[00:18:00]
Yeah. So it cost a little bit,~ uh,~ cheaper, but you have to watch ads, which is good because you then you can,~ uh,~ you can enter this,~ uh,~ yeah. Wonderful ecosystem of,~ uh, uh, ~SVOD with,~ uh,~ amazing premium contents and attention I people watching SVOD. They watch,~ uh,~ like they're focused on it. Yeah. So for, for advertisers, it's,~ uh,~ it's a good opportunity.
So for the landscape here, we have the three big international players. I think they will be am,~ um,~ Amazon, Netflix, and Disney. Yeah. As soon as they start advertising, it's gonna open up the landscape here. Yes. Yeah. If you, so like, potentially, like right now it's quite hard to target an expat. Yeah. ~Uh, ~Western Expat or Australian expat or Lebanese Expat, yeah.
Here in the region because of the limitations on the CTV supply. Yeah. But once these three platforms open up, it's just gonna open up a new wave of advertise CTV advertising. Right. Who I feel like when it comes to ad supported,~ uh,~ channels or streaming platforms, the conversation changes very quickly.
Yes. Right. [00:19:00] Today,~ uh,~ who is dominating that game of ad supported? ~Uh, ~so maybe we should have started Yeah. With the definition of, of the models Yeah. To, to understand the landscape. ~Um. ~I can do it if you want. Sure. Yeah. So SVOD subscription video and demand. ~Um, ~you pay a monthly price and you have access to unlimited,~ uh,~ content,~ uh,~ TVOD, transactional video and demand.
You rent,~ uh,~ you pay a fixed fee and then,~ uh,~ you can watch for a limited period of time. Mm-hmm. Apple tv. Like Apple TV on your own. Yeah. The store, app store, yeah. Then,~ um,~ a DD, so advertising, video, and demand. It's free for the,~ uh,~ end user, but you have to watch advertising. Yeah. Like Sha had Yes, exactly.
The, the three parts. Yeah. Fast free aport streaming television. So it's,~ uh,~ streaming channels available for free with commercials. And then you have the hybrid models, so Aport as well. You pay it a little bit cheaper, but you have access to most of the, of the content for a monthly fee. Okay. Okay. And here.
~Um, ~the streamers, they don't like a supported desktop. Yeah. The main reason is [00:20:00] that,~ um,~ in many countries, credit card penetration is still low, so they prefer to keep a so that,~ uh,~ it's a way to get,~ uh,~ an increase reach. Right, right. So we have, so watch it. Don't ask me why, but watch it. They have an As VD Yeah.
They launched,~ uh,~ not long ago. Yeah. So it was available in Uua e. I checked, like last week, they removed this option in Uua, but I think it's still available in Saudi, Egypt and other countries. Right. And ~uh, ~Netflix or have launched it globally, right? Yes, yes. Sometime ago. So the, for many years they were saying like never, we never have advertising and then Thailand, so good news from last week they,~ um,~ because they organized upfront now.
Yeah. And they announced that they have 94 million. Subscribers on the ad supported tier. Yeah. Where Globally. Worldwide. Worldwide. It's really interesting. It is really interesting. I think when it was announced by Netflix they were gonna do this, there's a lot of pushback. Oh no, I don't wanna watch Netflix.
'cause we got, we've gotten so used to [00:21:00] Netflix without ads and tv, without ads. I think that's what Paul Drew, drew us into Netflix originally. Yeah. Was, oh, you can watch a show. They released it all in one day and there's no ads. Yeah. It's amazing. But now, well, when it was released, I remember like talking to my friends back home, reading like.
Forums in the us everyone was unhappy. And like if the answer says if there's 94 million people, it's amazing. Yeah. Like it, it just shows that people are willing Yeah. To take a hit. Especially with all paying for all these multi subscriptions. Yeah. It, it takes a hit. And especially now with inflation rising.
Yeah. Consumers are trying to save where they can. So I think it's perfect. And I think once it gets released here is we're gonna have that backlash. Oh no, we're never gonna do this. We're not gonna do this. But then people will. Come back and then start, and tho those are the audiences that advertisers want.
Right? Those are the audiences advertisers can access. But it's the expensive one, huh? That that's the, the category where the CPM or the highest. So yeah, I think it's high. Yeah. I've run, I've run Netflix in the uk, Germany, and the US 40 50? No, 50 [00:22:00] 40. So it depends. But then again, it's the way we're selling it, it's, it's one of the most premium content.
Yeah. Attention. And like Netflix, we're not talking about second rate. Content. We're talking about top content, which everyone's watching, like we had you released last week. Yeah. People talk about Netflix every day, and then they binge that content as well. So it's, but so, but before we get into the,~ um,~ effectiveness of CTV advertising, right.
And running ads on ad supported,~ uh,~ streaming platforms, do you think it's, it's something that will really, ~um. ~Yeah. ~Um, ~grow and scale in, in, in the region here, especially GCC, where the disposable income that people have, will they really opt in for ad supported streaming platforms? Yes. Yes. Okay. Future is bright, good to keep growing.
Yeah. Honestly, it's,~ uh,~ the, the market is so different compared to,~ uh,~ more mature market, but definitely there is a beautiful path to grow. ~Uh, ~the streaming penetration here is only so, ~um. ~It's the, the [00:23:00] percentage of,~ uh,~ households with an SVOD. So with a paid subscription, 10% only Mina. Wow. Okay. In the US it's,~ uh,~ 81, 85.
Okay. There is a, this gap. So there is a price point sort of, ~uh, ~gap. Yeah. Yes, exactly. That's why also,~ um,~ I mentioned the challenge,~ uh,~ before, you know, that's why they launched Aport,~ uh,~ as well, so. Each challenge has a solution. Mm-hmm. And what we call the willingness to pay is a bigger challenge here. So because there is a low willingness to pay, so the answer is a right.
Okay. When the subscription fatigue, the answer is at supported as. And there is another one also,~ um,~ that we call discovery issue. So too many content. I just want to sit and watch. Yeah. This is fast. Right. Yeah. Led back and then yeah, you play. Gotcha. I think in terms of adoption, I think what consumers and users will start to see is, yes, they're advertising on these platforms, but you're not being bombarded with ads.
Mm-hmm. So like when you watch YouTube, obviously you can get like free ads in a row where you have, I know you, [00:24:00] I know you can skip it. But's still a bit annoying. Whereas with Netflix, they're gonna still prioritize consum consumer experience 'cause they don't want users to get feel annihilated. Right. So there will be an element of a bit, it feels a bit more natural.
So it doesn't bombard the, or the user with ads. Yeah. So I think, yeah. And you, you mentioned,~ uh,~ now when it comes to ads, high CPMs, yes. Right. ~Uh, ~there is a premium right to run ads on, on CTV,~ uh,~ get on the big screen in the living room. It does hit a little bit different right then, then seeing an ad. ~Uh, ~while you're doom scrolling on, on social media or, yeah, it's that, it's that big screen.
It's that big screen, right? Big screening package. And people, people are engaged in the content as well. So it's like you're watching that show, you're not on your phone, you're watching that show. And then, and that pops up and you will still be on that show waiting for the ad to finish. So, but here's the million dollar question on these ads.
Is the higher CPM worth paying? I believe it is because for that brand, the brand awareness you, you're getting [00:25:00] from this, it's amazing. Mm-hmm. Think about it, it's ~um, ~one household, maybe there's four or five people sitting there watching the ad or they're all being exposed to that ad. Right. And again, when you, then, when you crack, the numbers look down at cost per completed view, it's quite competitive.
So you are, I think you're paying 0.3, 0.03 cent. Yeah. 4 cent. Whereas YouTube is about zero 1 cent. So it is, ~um. ~It's competitive in that I think you have to look away from the ccpm value and the CCP m's. Scary like, yeah. Sometimes when I go to clients, especially when I was pitching Netflix, I was, I think at the launch was of the demand Netflix clever.
'cause they were doing it in two different types of auctions. Yeah. But for like the guaranteed inventory, it was going up to like $50. Yes, it's a lot of money and there's a lot of money. But then you have to just sit back and say, look, these users are, these users are,~ um,~ what's it called them? Premium.
Premium? No, no, no. They're like engaged. They're very engaged. Yeah. They're hooked. They're hooked. And they're like watching the content. And then there's also the elements of incremental reach as well. So you're reaching extra users and other parts of their day. Yeah. People tend to watch CTV in the [00:26:00] evening when they're after work.
That's what they're focused on. Yeah. When they're relaxed and that's what they're focusing. Not in the day, like dream schooling. I'm guilty of it on TikTok, just looking at everything. I heard something last week that was,~ uh,~ very interesting. So views don't get yourselves. So don't, before talking about the high CPM,~ um,~ go back to the other way and,~ uh,~ understand the parameters.
Mm-hmm. So you have a CTV big screen. Then the ad load also is very different on a supported dashboard. It's,~ uh,~ it can be, it can go up to five, five minute per,~ uh,~ hour, but it's, you know, very low compared to a pure A VOD or that, that can be what, in the us I think it's 50 minutes per hour of ads. Yes. Yes.
And then,~ uh,~ the more targeting and capabilities you add, the more premium it becomes. Yeah. So you will,~ uh,~ reach,~ uh,~ exactly the people you want to talk to. Right. With an amazing,~ uh,~ yeah. Yeah. And,~ uh,~ speaking of targeting Yes. Right? And formats. This is a also a topic of discussion, let's say, when it comes to CTV, and I [00:27:00] remember when CTV was first introduced in the region, targeting was very limited.
Okay. ~Uh, ~as compared to other channels,~ um,~ because of the lack of segmentation and data and tracking,~ um,~ there is, there was available on, on CTV users. Has it improved regionally? No, but it's getting there like internationally, it's amazing. Right? We have third party data partners now who are able to come in.
Do that audience targets, you can target high net worth individuals regionally, we're getting there. Okay. And I think that's important, but then I think that comes to scale. 'cause right now we just have one or two big players. Like ultimately if I'm booking CTV in the region, SHA head's gonna take up a lot of that budget.
Mm-hmm. I think once these extra players, Amazon, Netflix, Disney, I think Amazon have a very good data or audience segmentations, obviously. They have the Amazon shopping data, which syncs directly to the tv, so there's no. There's no, there's no deter. It's, it's,~ um,~ deterministic data, so it's Right. You know that person.
Not de deterministic. What's the other one [00:28:00] called? Unique. Unique? Yeah. It's, it's actual audiences. It's ID based. ID based, yeah. Sorry, my mind went blank. Obviously when you go on Amazon Prime, you log Deterministic is term, by the way. Yeah, because it's been a long week Deterministic data, because you're logging into that, you're logging into your Amazon account on, on the smart tv, so it has all your shopping behaviors there.
So that just then adds an element. Really fine targeting, but like regionally, we're not there. Yeah. And I think once again, I think once the big players come and then I think Shahed will start to wake up a bit and say, look, okay, Netflix can do this targeting with Netflix. Disney and Amazon are building this technology in Western Europe.
Yeah. And they're gonna bring this technology here. And once they do, yeah. It's gonna speak for itself. ~Uh, ~Amazon is pretty decent, pretty sizable in the region here. Yeah. But perhaps Prime isn't. ~Um, ~yeah. Yeah. So they were, they had a team a couple of years ago, then they fired everyone. So now there's no one they manage,~ um,~ the region from Singapore.
Yeah. They will come back at some point. They will, yeah. They come back with the [00:29:00] Advertis advertising. Tes even better. Okay. 'cause I know, I know they're launching in India. I think we're going, we'll be running a campaign in India a few months in time. Yeah. They have a big team in India. ~Uh, ~they use, they, they, they, they could produce content there.
Yeah. ~Um, ~Amazon are doing a lot of things globally as well, so they bought a lot of TV rights. Yeah. So in Europe they have the Champions League, I think in the US they have basketball. Yeah. They have the NBA on in the us so they're building extra inventory. They have tennis, Wimbledon, and suited markets.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're right. I also, the they have the American football. Right? Exactly. Yeah. So they go on like, it's interesting, I thought Netflix were gonna do this. Mm-hmm. So I know Netflix, they trialed NFL. In the uk. Right. And they also tried the boxing events. Yes. They tried the jpo boxing lesson.
Yeah. Unless we talk about that a better, but then, yeah, they are trialing these new events and like obviously have like the likes of the zone in Europe. But then regionally, I think if Amazon, if Amazon have the resources, I think we, we all know this, if they start adding sports to here, it's just gonna add an extra element.
Yeah. But then obviously here you have bn, [00:30:00] which are the kings of Todd. So Todd would be the kings of sport in the region here. Mm-hmm. Something that I, I don't, I don't understand, is that I know that most of the agencies, they're waiting for all the big players, global giants to launch their arch support tier, but they're already like,~ uh,~ local players with this kind of,~ uh,~ of,~ uh,~ tier.
Yeah. And I know it's complex, but I, I, I don't know exactly why it's comp because I think the advertising world, you're looking for volume, right? Yeah. So then you focus on Shahi. Yeah. Yeah. But what, what about the others? Like enlighten, who are the others? Yes. Yes. But ~uh, ~so for example,~ um,~ now,~ uh,~ osm, they have an app supported,~ uh,~ chair.
Okay. Yeah. I assume the volume are low, but,~ uh,~ yeah, the volume is lower. They're here. Yeah. Star zone. Also, they launched A VOD and Fast,~ uh,~ last year. Okay. So it's,~ uh,~ 2.3 million SVOD. Yeah. But much more when it comes to,~ uh,~ advertising. I hope,~ uh,~ media planners are listening to this. And then I think it's also important, you know, to all work together to Yeah, of course.
If we have a strong local [00:31:00] ecosystem, it's always better. Yeah. I know for the advertisers, for your clients, you need volume. And with the big players,~ uh,~ it's a way to get it. But at some point, like we also want the, the money to stay, ~uh. ~Part of the region, like, ~uh, ~correct. If we give money to Netflix and ~uh, ~Amazon, we know it, it won't go,~ uh,~ yeah.
Won't go here. ~Um, ~if they reinvest in,~ uh,~ producing local content, it'll be amazing, but I'm not, I'm not convinced. Right. ~Um, ~in terms of targeting. So you can have access to whatever the streaming platform offers in terms of segmentation, but we are seeing also these. ~Uh, ~third party,~ uh,~ data. Yes, right. ~Uh, ~providers that are making their audiences available on CTV to buy from.
So Amazon is one obviously. ~Um, ~but also another one is LinkedIn. CTV. Like today, what? No. Yes. LinkedIn. First time I hear LinkedIn is offering CTV ads, guys, so you can target LinkedIn users. That's amazing on CTV. So they've obviously partnered with a,~ um,~ [00:32:00] A CTV supplier,~ uh,~ ad supplier, right. Inventory,~ uh,~ ad supplier, and they're just making their audiences available there.
Smart. That's amazing. Very smart. That's there's a good audience in the, yeah. Yeah. And Indian,~ uh,~ I believe,~ uh,~ there are other companies that are doing the same. ~Um, ~cri I believe I also doing the same. Which, which is making now, you know, targeting very, very interesting on, on CTV. ~Um, ~I think that's, I think like that is the positive of CTV targeting compared to any targeting.
So I think this is very important. Like CTV, we're able to go granular. Eventually we will, yeah. CTV have the ability to go ly, contextually target tv. It's not like. You're giving your money. If with linear TV you're just giving your money to a broadcasting house mm-hmm. And they decide where the ads go with, with linear you, with CTV, you can be very targeted.
Yeah. Making sure you're hitting the audience the day partying, making sure hitting the audience at the right time and it's quite cool. And then you can tailor your ads to focus on the audience you targets. If you're targeting males, you can have a bit more of a male focused that [00:33:00] females family ads. So I think this is where, this is the big positive CTV is the flexibility.
And then again, if there's. A client's emergency, we can switch it off. Depends on where you're buying it. If you're buying it on one of the DSPs, you can switch it off within a second and then your brand is protected. And the interesting thing about,~ uh,~ these,~ um, um, ~third party,~ uh,~ audience providers, or the LinkedIn example for,~ uh,~ as, as an example, is that they're also able to track visitors that visit the website or the client's website.
After they've seen a CTV ad. Yeah, because you can obviously place your LinkedIn pixel on the landing page, and then because of the unique identifier, right, because the,~ uh,~ SMART TV is tagged to that unique identifier, you're able to track someone who's viewed a CTV ad and then visited a website, which was before a super hard challenge, right?
Yeah. To track,~ uh,~ CTV performance. Yeah. And I personally still think it's a hard challenge Yeah. To track CTV [00:34:00] performance because obviously you can use a cross device graph where it maps together your CTV device with your phone within that same household based off IP address. Mm-hmm. But again, this technology is not a hundred percent there.
Even in Europe it's not a hundred percent there. So I think this is one of the big challenges of CTV is actually attributing a final action from your CTV. So this is,~ um,~ I know there are. There are things that are happening, which sound nice, but I think ultimately, personally, personally, I feel it's not quite there yet.
Yeah. But it will be there eventually. I'm sure there's people, because this is a big problem. CTV is just attributing that CTV ad to the final conversion if we advertiser, right? Yeah. It'll be always better than,~ uh,~ linear. ~Uh, ~yes. TV advertising, of course, linear tv. ~Uh, ~that is, ~uh. ~Still be here, but yeah, it's,~ uh,~ it's,~ uh,~ yeah.
It's not as trackable as other channels for sure. ~Uh, ~it's, it's, it's been based, it's been measured based on surveys for such a long time. Yes. Which isn't ideal. ~Um, ~but hey, I guess BLS studies are based [00:35:00] on surveys too, right? Brandless studies mm-hmm. Are also based on surveys. ~Um, ~so I guess you do what you can with what you have.
~Uh, ~what do you think are. Yeah. And certain,~ uh,~ big innovations that will come maybe to, to me now when it comes to the CTV space, you foresee that are gonna,~ uh,~ come in the next two, three years if you, if you Yeah. Foresee anything? There are, there are many. Yeah. I'm, I'm,~ uh,~ at CapSat I discussed with,~ uh,~ a startup,~ uh,~ from Germany.
Yeah. Called Jay. And what they do is,~ uh,~ shoppable,~ uh,~ content. So that's a, that's a amazing technology. So there are different use case. For example, you watch a game and,~ uh,~ at the same time, so you watch a football player,~ uh,~ the one with the ball,~ uh,~ you can see directly on the screen, his jersey and other,~ uh,~ ways, and you can buy directly on the TV.
Oh, wow. Okay. But is this a, a, a smart device iot type? ~Uh. ~Product or is it the It's integrated within the player. [00:36:00] Okay. Directly inside. Inside the player. Inside the player, yes. So inside the app On the, on the tv. Okay. Another use case, you watch your favorite ~uh, ~TV series. You have a lady with a dress. Same.
You can see the same dress and buy it directly. Okay. Okay. So Amazon,~ uh,~ yeah, already of course mentioned this. They have a feature called X-ray. Or I don't know if you tested it, but,~ um,~ it's a, you, you receive a lot of metadata in,~ uh,~ real time of the characters on the scene. Yeah. And they're going to implement soon the shoppable content.
Okay. And this startup, they do the same, but for tier two, tier three streaming platforms, so Oh, great news for retailers, I guess. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I'm sure there will be links also, of course, with you advertising. Yeah. Still complex to implement, I think. But you know. The, the battery tech is the, the, the seamless, right.
It should be. So I think it's an interesting,~ uh,~ innovation. Okay. ~Um, ~what advice do you have for brands and ~uh, ~agencies right, to start exploring CTV in MENA region? I [00:37:00] think,~ um,~ start small. Like if you haven't appeared on CTV, you're not gonna see results straight away. And I think you have to manage client's expectations.
Immediately. I think you have to sell them big form format, but I think,~ um,~ start off small. Yeah. Don't go very heavy on the audience targeting. Yeah. Don't expect you can target male 28 who likes football, but also likes to go to the gym. I think start off very broad and sell, sell it straight away and then go into the deep.
I think once they start to see the results of incremental reach and then brand awareness, I think that's very important. I think once they start to see that, that's when they're gonna start to be happy. And I think. I think obviously the CPMs are gonna scare every client out there. Yeah. And I think once they start to see the results, the completion rate's always 95 plus percent.
Yeah. That'll calm them down and then you'll be able to slowly bring in a bit more, increase your CTV budget from there. Right. And how would you recommend that,~ um,~ brands or ad agencies measure CTV in order to have a go in justifying the [00:38:00] CPM? Yeah. So, ~um, ~I think you obviously have your base metrics.
Impressions, yeah. Views. That's again important. So I think see cost per completed view, I think focus on this, I think focus on the efficiencies on CP CV. Yeah. But then also add in some bls. Yep. I think BLS is, are very important. Don't just focus on these lower, like these basic metrics. Get a BLS in there.
Yeah. To see if there's brand awareness. And then even you can run a, with a food party with Nielsen or comScore. Yeah. Measure the incremental reach you getting some of the ads. Yeah. And I think that's important as well. It's just again, reaching the new audience. Yeah. In different places. Incremental lift versus other channels.
Exactly. Yeah. Cool. ~Uh, ~Ahmad Ian, thanks so much for coming to the show. It's been a absolute pleasure. Thanks for having us. You so much. Yeah. ~Uh, ~we'll be back. Yeah. I'll definitely have you back for the next,~ uh,~ every six months. I'm sure the ecosystem will be different. There will be a need. Yes. Thank you so much.
Amazing. Thank you.