The loyalty landscape is evolving—are you keeping up? In Part 2 of our conversation with Paula Thomas—founder of Let’s Talk Loyalty and affectionately dubbed “The Oprah of Loyalty”—we unpack 5 winning strategies for brands that want to build stronger, smarter loyalty programs in 2025 and beyond. From zero-cost emotional connection to loyalty tech integrations and real-world case studies, Paula brings two decades of wisdom to help brands rethink retention and customer engagement.
🎯 Topics covered:
• Why great loyalty programs start small and scale smart
• How to leverage tech without complicating the customer experience
• The role of data and personalization in building emotional loyalty
• Why experimentation is essential: gamification, paid tiers, experiences
• The underestimated power of listening to your members
• What makes customers feel seen, valued, and loyal
💡 This is your tactical and emotional playbook for loyalty that lasts.
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[00:00:49] Intro: Hi, Paula. Great to be back, Ibrahim. Good to have you back. Thank you for being here on below the fold podcast.
[00:00:59] Intro: Thank you. ~Um, ~we recorded a part one or an episode on loyalty marketing, and we're back to talk about. strategies for a winning loyalty program. And before we tap into that, how about you give the viewers and listeners who perhaps haven't seen Part 1, a bit of an introduction. Indeed, absolutely. So thank you for that.
[00:01:26] Intro: Great to be back, absolutely. I am somebody who Fell in love with loyalty a long time ago. ~Um, ~I'll give you a quick story actually, just to, to explain how powerful it was for me, because I suppose it's brought us to where I am today. So I was very lucky to join Emirates airline way back. Would you believe in the year 2000.
[00:01:45] Intro: 25 years ago, I know I'm aging myself now, but it was a time when I suppose emirates. com as a booking engine had just been launched and we were selling all of our flights through travel agencies at the time, as I'm sure a lot of your viewers and listeners will be familiar with. So I was asked to drive bookings through this specific new channel and the only lever or tool I had at my disposal was the loyalty program.
[00:02:12] Intro: So I built a campaign, I'm still very proud of it, where we connected the Skywards loyalty program with the emirates. com booking engine, and you got double Skywards miles if you booked online. And that to me just showed how powerful loyalty marketing can be, because I know that people, once they understood a simple value proposition, suddenly started behaving in a way, That we as an airline really wanted them to and they were benefiting with the extra skyward smiles So I suppose out of that came this passion for driving profitable behavior change.
[00:02:48] Intro: And I talked about that as the, the definition that I look to. So yes, here I am in 2025, having started a podcast called Let's Talk Loyalty. I've been christened the Oprah of loyalty as well. So we produce TV content a bit like you do. And all we do is interview people who run loyalty programs. So yeah, so that's the background.
[00:03:08] Intro: Fantastic. Sounds very exciting. Yeah. Sounds. It's like a privilege to have you here on the show to talk about really what works as a loyalty program. Right? Yeah. Why don't we get started? Okay. So first one, um, or first winning, um, strategy, uh, for a winning loyalty program is start small and scale. Why is that?
[00:03:33] Intro: So I think first and foremost, consumers are extremely busy. They're not really paying as much attention to our brand as we ever want them to. So I think as marketers, I think we're guilty of assuming that people really are invested with our business, but that's never the case. So what we really want to do is find something that they find interesting,~ um,~ and something that they're willing to engage with.
[00:03:58] Intro: And in order to do that, we all know this idea of cognitive overload. We don't want to overload anybody. ~Um, ~so what we want is to give them a real reason. To be a customer of ours to behave in the ways that we want them to, but in a way that's easy to communicate. I often think about my favorite book title I ever came across, and it's called Don't Make Me Think.
[00:04:22] Intro: And I actually often think about that as a loyalty marketer, if you're making the customer think, then already it's too complicated. Right. So start small, make it really easy. And then the customers will engage and they will tell each other. So it's very powerful if you could achieve that. Right. And we spoke earlier in the previous episode, how loyalty programs can also be costly.
[00:04:43] Intro: Yeah. Right. There's a substantial cost of implementation that is not tied to, to a loyalty program. Sure. So you might want to. Start small, see if it works. And if it does, maybe then you'll scale up. Totally. Absolutely. Yeah. There is a whole test and learn Ibraham. I think it would be foolish of any brand to assume that just because I've launched a program, that it's going to have the impact and the effectiveness that I think.
[00:05:11] Intro: So you're absolutely right. If you can, first of all, develop different loyalty strategy options. Talk to your customers about those, see which one resonates with them the most, and then execute in that direction. Potentially before you buy any technology. Because of course, once you've designed something, then you build it.
[00:05:30] Intro: We often see, I can tell you for a fact, that people come to us as loyalty technology companies. For example, I work with lots of them. Sometimes brands come and say, Oh, great. I need a loyalty platform. And we go, great. So what, what are we building? And they're like, Oh, we don't know. We're like, okay, so how are we going to help you?
[00:05:49] Intro: Are every platform can, can do so many cool things. And, but it is a case of being very clear on what is the mission and the vision for this loyalty program. How is it going to drive the behavior of the customer? And then how can we build it? And as you said, let's not invest until we know what we're building and why.
[00:06:06] Intro: Right. And you mentioned technology and speaking of technology, the second winning strategy is leverage technology, right? ~Um, ~totally tap into it. You know, I think there's,~ um,~ you know, there's a role for it to play, but again, it has to be, I think under the,~ um,~ I suppose the overall brand experience as well, I think in the past, for example, even when I worked in telecommunications, I talked to you about that before.
[00:06:33] Intro: We would have been building maybe a separate app for the loyalty program. And then we had a lot of cost and complexity around the discoverability of that separate app. ~Um, ~and sometimes that does still make sense, but actually, why not just integrate the loyalty proposition into the core business app? So, for me, it is a case of understanding, okay, where's the consumer engaging?
[00:06:57] Intro: How do they want to connect? Do they want to have two apps from your brand, or can we make it super simple and combine it in one? So, leveraging technology is absolutely right. We'll all be familiar with, I suppose, the old forms of identification, which, of course, is what our industry specializes in, like plastic cards.
[00:07:15] Intro: Whereas now, of course, we're all moving to digital. So, yes, I think more and more, particularly younger demographics, of course, want to have the digital access, not necessarily stuffing their wallet with plastic. Although I can tell you as a gold card holder with the, with Emirates, I'm very proud to carry that card.
[00:07:32] Intro: So it depends on what the card is designed to do. Right. Um, and we spoke earlier in the previous episode again. And that how technology was pivoted actually and creating the entire industry. Right. You mentioned of loyalty, right? With the computerization, I guess, of loyalty by, by, by some of the airlines.
[00:07:51] Intro: Indeed. Yes, it was American airlines was the very first,~ uh,~ first airline. Uh, the first hotel program I also interviewed them was,~ uh,~ IHG. The intercontinental hotel group. So yeah, the whole industry does go back to stamps originally. That was the very first time that we see in the history books. And that retailers would have identified that if you give people something to collect, then they're more likely to come back into your store.
[00:08:16] Intro: So that dates back to the late 1800s. But then of course, when you have an airline and you need to capture passenger data, and of course, understand the bookings, the classes of travel, all of those kind of piece of data, and that only came about, uh, when loyalty programs computerized in the early 1980s, right?
[00:08:36] Intro: ~Um, ~and I do have a feeling that, um, technology can be linked back or the use of technology can be linked back to. Data and how, how are you using data? How are you, how are you leveraging data, right? To know more about your customer. Sure. Yeah. ~Um, ~because like you said earlier, data is the new oil. Of course.
[00:08:56] Intro: ~Um, ~and I feel like the, the role of chatbots and AI assistants, Obviously, uh, is, is growing in importance when it comes to loyalty, but I think it's also an interesting area to collect data about the, about the customer. Would you say that this is perhaps an interesting, uh, technology that clients or brands should leverage?
[00:09:23] Intro: A hundred percent. I think as an industry, what we would say is you should never capture data. Without knowing how you're going to use it. So, I think again to go back historically, there would have been long application forms, particularly for the frequent flyer programs. Where the expectation was is that the member was happy to spend a long time filling in where I live, where I went to school, my mother's maiden name, I don't know what.
[00:09:49] Intro: Data that wasn't specifically usable for the business. And I think that they realized actually very quickly is that people are very jaded around that. They're also increasingly sensitive about their privacy. Now, again, that varies by market, but particularly in Europe, where I'm from, we have GDP or so we have to be very sensitive.
[00:10:09] Intro: So yes, data is the new oil. But it needs to be collected in a responsible manner, of course, managed in a very safe and secure way. ~Um, ~and again, only in a way where there's value to that member. One of my favorite interviews,~ um,~ was actually talking to the biggest train company in Spain called Renfe. And they were just doing incredible stuff.
[00:10:32] Intro: Again, it was a simple concept, but they were looking at, for example, Who is traveling on a train on their birthday, and then they would have a birthday card in the seat that's designated as long as they're a member of the loyalty program. Now, I have no idea how they execute it and at what scale, but the insight for me was breathtaking because that's true loyalty.
[00:10:55] Intro: That's the brand going. We know you're traveling. We know it's your special day, and we want to recognize you as a brand. So to me, birthday data is very special. It's the one day that I'm very judgmental about loyalty programs and looking at what's coming in. And I think that is an opportunity to say thank you for being our customer.
[00:11:14] Intro: So using that data the customer has given you and in a way that makes them feel good. I'm happy to give up my data for a happy birthday. Exactly, exactly. It was a great example actually here as well in this market. So, ~um, ~Blue Rewards specifically. And I remember they sent a coupon for a free coffee and a cake.
[00:11:33] Intro: In one of their partner stores. I can't remember the name of the cafe, so they'll have to forgive me for that, but I thought it was beautiful. Yeah, it's like, here's a gift. It was valid for the whole week and I went and had a free coffee and a cake, and I was delighted. . Excellent. ~Um, ~next winning strategy experiment with trends.
[00:11:50] Intro: That can be gamification, it can be paid memberships, or it can be experiential,~ uh,~ rewards. Mm-hmm . Any, any other trends maybe, or what would you, what do you think about experimenting, I guess, as a, as a, as a tactic, as a winning tactic? It's a winning tactic, a hundred percent. It is essential. ~Um, ~what we would typically do in the industry is,~ um,~ of course have a core proposition, for example, a base earning rate.
[00:12:19] Intro: And then we would be able to turn on campaign. So double miles this week or triple miles, if you go to this particular outlet. So there are lots of different ways to test and learn no loyalty program should ever be static. ~Um, ~so you, for example, I know in our last episode together. Talked about one of the potential risks of loyalty programs is that members can get bored.
[00:12:43] Intro: So testing is one way to identify something new that you can do that would surprise and delight your members, for example. And I'll give you one example, actually, when I worked back in telecommunications in Ireland, we were going through quite a difficult time where the business had been sold. So we had a loyalty program.
[00:13:03] Intro: It was,~ um,~ originally set up by O2,~ uh,~ which is a Telefonica brand and O2 priority still runs in the UK market. But the O2 business had been sold to three mobile. So there was a lot of uncertainty for customers. And again, we touched on it earlier. This whole idea of retention was critical. So I had a very small budget and we had no currency.
[00:13:27] Intro: So instead what we went and did was I went out and organized to get 10, 000 cups of coffee and that were available nationwide. ~Um, ~and that was something we could just turn it on and we could say, okay, today's free coffee day, take your code, go to your local coffee store and enjoy a cup of coffee on us.
[00:13:45] Intro: And it was unbelievably powerful. And again, without a currency, without all of the overheads, but we were able to do something that made a real difference. So yeah, I loved that again, but we tested it and it worked really well. Winning strategy. Number four, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, Dear customers, feedback and refinement, basically.
[00:14:06] Intro: Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, this, I mean, is probably something I feel like we, we probably shouldn't have to keep saying, but I even have to keep saying it to myself. There is no such thing as really knowing it all about your customers. I think the same, even as a podcaster, am I creating the right content for my audience?
[00:14:26] Intro: I'm sure you're doing all of the exact same thing. People love to tell you what they think. And I think I said to you all fair as well, we had gotten to a point where we were producing too much content in our podcast. And it was only when I finally thought, maybe I should ask people if this is the right amount of content.
[00:14:45] Intro: And they told me, no, it's too much. We can't listen to every episode you're publishing. So that was brilliant for me. I was able to simplify my business. Produce fewer episodes at a higher quality. So to me, listening to your customer is something, honestly, we can't say it enough. That's a great example. ~Um, ~last one.
[00:15:04] Intro: Prioritize emotional connection. That's a good one. That's an interesting one, right? So we're talking about storytelling and shared values. And you did mention in the previous episode. ~Um, ~so as an industry, we would talk about the difference between transactional loyalty and emotional loyalty. And really you need both.
[00:15:27] Intro: So to come back to the airlines that we've talked about already a lot. So yes, you need to reward people for flying, but how can you also make them feel special? So the train example actually is a very good, um, illustration of exactly how they've executed on that. But again, as a silver card holder or a gold card holder, there's, there's big differences in how the airline behaves.
[00:15:50] Intro: So whether it's priority boarding or being personally greeted on board, that is something that makes me feel like they know who I am and they're paying attention. It can also be as something as simple as there's an exclusive sale starting in my favorite department store. I'm a regular customer and a loyal customer.
[00:16:08] Intro: So I should get first access to get into that sale. That doesn't mean I get better discounts necessarily than anybody else, but I should have first access to it. And that's a brilliant way, I think, for a brand to demonstrate being loyal to that person and making sure that they feel, okay, Paul is invited for the VIP night.
[00:16:27] Intro: In advance of everybody else that creates emotional loyalty. So in an era where transactionals and transactions are very easy to copy, it's important to have something differentiated and just on your piece of bound community, I think another great case study is Sephora. And Sephora is very good at their personalization.
[00:16:48] Intro: They're very good at the cross sell and upsell at the till. But what they are also very famous for is their beauty insiders club. And it's a category I'm sure, you know, from any of the women in your life, people, women particularly love to talk about how to look their best. And they, they love to talk amongst each other.
[00:17:07] Intro: So they've created that community where people can talk about something they love, learn from each other. And it's a beautiful way for people to really feel connected to Sephora because they've created and facilitated that emotional connection. Fantastic. From, from, from your input, I captured, uh, an interesting element, which is.
[00:17:29] Intro: Um, one on one personalization can drive emotional connection, right? That, that example about, uh, uh, the birthday, uh, message, the train, right? This is just one on one personalization, right? Um, so personalization, I feel is, is an element that can help drive, right? Emotional connection. Holy grail. And I can tell you that every single loyalty manager that I've interviewed is.
[00:17:56] Intro: Extremely, um, I suppose, um, concerned about how little we have achieved and how much more there is to be done. Everybody's working super hard. A lot of the time, there's a very complicated marketing, um, architecture behind the scenes that maybe is disconnected. The e commerce store may not be connected to the real store.
[00:18:18] Intro: There are so many reasons where there may not be a single customer view. If there's no single customer view, then it's very hard to personalize. So everyone we talk to is absolutely saying we know personalization is what our customers want and we are committed to achieving it. But at the moment, we are still trying to get the basics right in terms of again, simplifying and delivering on that.
[00:18:40] Intro: So, ~uh, ~nobody I have spoken to have said we're fully personalized and we're delivering to the level of what we should be delivering at or what we're capable of. Particularly with AI. So I think that is one that is still five to 10 years away in terms of really being excellent. So a lot of work still to be done.
[00:18:58] Intro: Exciting times to be working in loyalty. Of course. I love it. Yeah. ~Um, ~great. So let's recap the winning strategies. ~Um, ~start small in scale, leverage technology, experiment with trends, listen to your customers and most importantly, prioritize emotional connections. Well said. Great. Thanks so much, Paula. ~Um, um, ~I'm really happy to have had you on the show.
[00:19:27] Intro: Thank you so much. It's been great. Yeah. It's been super fun. And thank you for all the wonderful questions. Yeah. I know you're doing amazing work in the marketing industry, so anything we can do to, to work with you would be amazing. Amazing. Where can we find you? You can find me on LinkedIn, of course, if you look up Paula Thomas, the Oprah of loyalty, you'll see me straight away.
[00:19:44] Intro: Or of course, letstalkloyalty. com or loyalty. tv. Amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you, Ibrahim.
[00:19:51]